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	<title>Comments on: Question</title>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 07:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: sim0n</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18478</link>
		<dc:creator>sim0n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18478</guid>
		<description>IMO kmail should definitively support client side filtering, exactly as it does with pop3.
 And there shouldn't be a difference between pop3 and imap filtering.
I love kmail but because imap filtering was completely broken in 3.5.7 and I started using imap exclusively on several accounts, that made me switch to thunderbird which isn't the best solution but it does just work...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO kmail should definitively support client side filtering, exactly as it does with pop3.<br />
 And there shouldn&#8217;t be a difference between pop3 and imap filtering.<br />
I love kmail but because imap filtering was completely broken in 3.5.7 and I started using imap exclusively on several accounts, that made me switch to thunderbird which isn&#8217;t the best solution but it does just work&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: berkus</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18054</link>
		<dc:creator>berkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 01:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18054</guid>
		<description>Server, for obvious reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Server, for obvious reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Hahler</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18034</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Hahler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18034</guid>
		<description>You may want to look at POPFile, which uses a naive Bayes classifier to filter mail and not just allows the typical "spam" and "ham" categories, but supports as much buckets/categories as you wish.

It can act as a proxy for POP3 (this would be filtering on the client side), but also supports IMAP: it regularly accesses the IMAP server and checks the relevant folders (e.g. INBOX) for new mail, classifies it and moves it to the folder configured for the determined bucket.
The user can re-classify mails by moving them into another IMAP folder associated with a bucket.
E.g., when a mail gets classified as "personal", but is really "work", you can move it from the folder associated with the "personal" bucket to the one for "work" and POPFile will re-classify it.

This works really great!

POPFile for IMAP should run as a daemon on the IMAP server itself, if possible (for bandwidth/performance reasons), but it's possible to have it on a remote system, e.g. when using it with GMail's IMAP interface.

See http://getpopfile.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may want to look at POPFile, which uses a naive Bayes classifier to filter mail and not just allows the typical &#8220;spam&#8221; and &#8220;ham&#8221; categories, but supports as much buckets/categories as you wish.</p>
<p>It can act as a proxy for POP3 (this would be filtering on the client side), but also supports IMAP: it regularly accesses the IMAP server and checks the relevant folders (e.g. INBOX) for new mail, classifies it and moves it to the folder configured for the determined bucket.<br />
The user can re-classify mails by moving them into another IMAP folder associated with a bucket.<br />
E.g., when a mail gets classified as &#8220;personal&#8221;, but is really &#8220;work&#8221;, you can move it from the folder associated with the &#8220;personal&#8221; bucket to the one for &#8220;work&#8221; and POPFile will re-classify it.</p>
<p>This works really great!</p>
<p>POPFile for IMAP should run as a daemon on the IMAP server itself, if possible (for bandwidth/performance reasons), but it&#8217;s possible to have it on a remote system, e.g. when using it with GMail&#8217;s IMAP interface.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://getpopfile.org/" rel="nofollow">http://getpopfile.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: tadeusz</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18032</link>
		<dc:creator>tadeusz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18032</guid>
		<description>Client-side. It's more user-configurable. Server-side can apply one general policy (example: each X-Maillist: whatever goes to separate folder), whereas user can configure his/her client to whatever sorting, automating and organizing methodologies (think GTD and such) he/she might choose.

Its Delivery -&#62; sorting -&#62; reading kind of workflow, where the first step is blackbox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Client-side. It&#8217;s more user-configurable. Server-side can apply one general policy (example: each X-Maillist: whatever goes to separate folder), whereas user can configure his/her client to whatever sorting, automating and organizing methodologies (think GTD and such) he/she might choose.</p>
<p>Its Delivery -&gt; sorting -&gt; reading kind of workflow, where the first step is blackbox.</p>
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		<title>By: Emmet Hikory</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18021</link>
		<dc:creator>Emmet Hikory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18021</guid>
		<description>The answer to ths question is "Yes".  Both the MDA and the MUA should have a means of pushing mail into folders.  When the MDA is delivering mail, it should check the user configuration, and deliver it in the way the user selected.  When the user later reads the mail, they may want to change things, or use their MUA to reorganise the contents of the folders in some way.

From the perspective of the IMAP server, there is no meaningful difference between manual and automated mail filing as performed by the client, so MUA changes are inherently safe, and will be visible to alternate MUAs using the same IMAP store.  On the other hand, these changes must be submitted and confirmed over the network, so such an approach is inherently slow, despite other advantages, and may cause user confusion if the MUA performing changes is temporarily offline or multiple MUAs attempt to apply the same automated filters.

From the perspective of the IMAP client, there is no meaningful difference in updates made by the MDA as compared to another MUA pointing at the same store, so MDA changes are inherently safe, and will be visible to all MUAs using the same IMAP store.  On the other hand, these changes are typically somewhat invisible to the user, and so strong automation can be frustrating, for instance when the user moves a message manually and finds that it has been put back by the server (although any case of two competing IMAP clients can cause this).

In an ideal world, there are three types of interesting IMAP client.  The MDA (which may use something other than IMAP to update the store), which imposes initial filtering rules on received mail, and drops the mail as "new" in the corresponding folders.  The MUA which allows the user to move mail however they want (although this should be manual or once-off scripted) to match their preferences.  The MPA (Mail Processing Agent), which allows the user to impose automated rules for mail filtering (e.g. messages over three months old migration from the foo-list to the foo-list-archive folder), and acts as an IMAP client.

    Note that a given tool may act in several of these roles.  A "full-featured" client might have a means by which it can pull messages by various means (POP, RSS, etc.), and perform an MDA role to insert these into the IMAP store; a means by which the user can configure deep automation as to how their mail should be presented, acting as an MPA; and a means by which the user can read and review mail.  Leaving such a client active somewhere should allow the user to benefit from the IMAP store from any MUA.

    On the other hand, such a tool carries a high overhead, an other users may wish to handle initial population of the IMAP store with a traditional MDA, perhaps in combination with a traditional remote sync tool (e.g. fetchmail).  Automation would be handled by a low-footprint client with highly-reliable power / network-access / etc.  User interaction with mail would be with a variety of IMAP clients as the user may find convenient (which may include the "full-featured" client described above, with MDA and MPA functions inactive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer to ths question is &#8220;Yes&#8221;.  Both the MDA and the MUA should have a means of pushing mail into folders.  When the MDA is delivering mail, it should check the user configuration, and deliver it in the way the user selected.  When the user later reads the mail, they may want to change things, or use their MUA to reorganise the contents of the folders in some way.</p>
<p>From the perspective of the IMAP server, there is no meaningful difference between manual and automated mail filing as performed by the client, so MUA changes are inherently safe, and will be visible to alternate MUAs using the same IMAP store.  On the other hand, these changes must be submitted and confirmed over the network, so such an approach is inherently slow, despite other advantages, and may cause user confusion if the MUA performing changes is temporarily offline or multiple MUAs attempt to apply the same automated filters.</p>
<p>From the perspective of the IMAP client, there is no meaningful difference in updates made by the MDA as compared to another MUA pointing at the same store, so MDA changes are inherently safe, and will be visible to all MUAs using the same IMAP store.  On the other hand, these changes are typically somewhat invisible to the user, and so strong automation can be frustrating, for instance when the user moves a message manually and finds that it has been put back by the server (although any case of two competing IMAP clients can cause this).</p>
<p>In an ideal world, there are three types of interesting IMAP client.  The MDA (which may use something other than IMAP to update the store), which imposes initial filtering rules on received mail, and drops the mail as &#8220;new&#8221; in the corresponding folders.  The MUA which allows the user to move mail however they want (although this should be manual or once-off scripted) to match their preferences.  The MPA (Mail Processing Agent), which allows the user to impose automated rules for mail filtering (e.g. messages over three months old migration from the foo-list to the foo-list-archive folder), and acts as an IMAP client.</p>
<p>    Note that a given tool may act in several of these roles.  A &#8220;full-featured&#8221; client might have a means by which it can pull messages by various means (POP, RSS, etc.), and perform an MDA role to insert these into the IMAP store; a means by which the user can configure deep automation as to how their mail should be presented, acting as an MPA; and a means by which the user can read and review mail.  Leaving such a client active somewhere should allow the user to benefit from the IMAP store from any MUA.</p>
<p>    On the other hand, such a tool carries a high overhead, an other users may wish to handle initial population of the IMAP store with a traditional MDA, perhaps in combination with a traditional remote sync tool (e.g. fetchmail).  Automation would be handled by a low-footprint client with highly-reliable power / network-access / etc.  User interaction with mail would be with a variety of IMAP clients as the user may find convenient (which may include the &#8220;full-featured&#8221; client described above, with MDA and MPA functions inactive.</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18020</link>
		<dc:creator>Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18020</guid>
		<description>It should be done at the server, so it's not dependent on the MUA I'm using.  I could be using webmail, my phone, my laptop, or my desktop; I shouldn't have maintain filters in 4 different places.  It should also be configurable from any of them.  IMAP4 + Seive for the win.  That said, a high-quality MUA may want to ALSO provide client-size filtering -- in the case where you want to have similar/same rules got mail coming through multiple servers or when you need to do something automatically that touches multiple servers or that the server is unwilling or unable to do for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be done at the server, so it&#8217;s not dependent on the MUA I&#8217;m using.  I could be using webmail, my phone, my laptop, or my desktop; I shouldn&#8217;t have maintain filters in 4 different places.  It should also be configurable from any of them.  IMAP4 + Seive for the win.  That said, a high-quality MUA may want to ALSO provide client-size filtering &#8212; in the case where you want to have similar/same rules got mail coming through multiple servers or when you need to do something automatically that touches multiple servers or that the server is unwilling or unable to do for you.</p>
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		<title>By: alfmatos</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18014</link>
		<dc:creator>alfmatos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18014</guid>
		<description>At the server, definitely.

A common use case that kills me, is that I have a couple of Evolution delivery rules on an IMAP account, but when I access that account through webmail, all hell breaks loose and I have to parse a couple hundred messages by hand... Not pretty (damned procmail/courier-imap bugs that break some rules :) ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the server, definitely.</p>
<p>A common use case that kills me, is that I have a couple of Evolution delivery rules on an IMAP account, but when I access that account through webmail, all hell breaks loose and I have to parse a couple hundred messages by hand&#8230; Not pretty (damned procmail/courier-imap bugs that break some rules <img src='http://www.sourceguru.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ).</p>
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		<title>By: muj</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18013</link>
		<dc:creator>muj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18013</guid>
		<description>There should be no folders :)

Mail client can simply make automatic views, based on mailing-list headers (see opera mail).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There should be no folders <img src='http://www.sourceguru.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Mail client can simply make automatic views, based on mailing-list headers (see opera mail).</p>
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		<title>By: jkt</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18012</link>
		<dc:creator>jkt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18012</guid>
		<description>MDA, for that's how things are supposed to work and because we have IMAP that supports multiple mail folders.

Think about it -- your mail server is by design a centralized application, as you have all your mails on one place. Thanks to that, you can access your mails form anywhere, with any compliant client. It makes perfect sense to attach rules governing what happens with incoming messages to the same data store.

Of course, if you use some nice protocol for managing your filtering rules (like Sieve/managesieve), any compliant client will let you modify your filtering moods.

Anyway, if you ever access your mails from more than one place (most people do), you want filtering rules stored on your mail server.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MDA, for that&#8217;s how things are supposed to work and because we have IMAP that supports multiple mail folders.</p>
<p>Think about it &#8212; your mail server is by design a centralized application, as you have all your mails on one place. Thanks to that, you can access your mails form anywhere, with any compliant client. It makes perfect sense to attach rules governing what happens with incoming messages to the same data store.</p>
<p>Of course, if you use some nice protocol for managing your filtering rules (like Sieve/managesieve), any compliant client will let you modify your filtering moods.</p>
<p>Anyway, if you ever access your mails from more than one place (most people do), you want filtering rules stored on your mail server.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18007</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/120#comment-18007</guid>
		<description>In my opinion, the filtering would best be done on the server.

As it's kind of... nonstandardized how this is done I can live with the way thunderbird does this (download Mailheader, filter, move mail if necessary). 

With KMail this isn't really possible, as KMail will, as soon as there are filters set for IMAP-Accounts: Download new mail, delete it from the server, check for filters, reupload the mail if it doesn't need to be filtered. This behaviour makes KMail unusable with filters, if you want to use IMAP-filters.

The IMHO best way would be filters set by MUA on the server, which can be read and altered by another MUA. So it doesn't matter where I am, i always have the same filters without needing SSH/SCP to alter procmailrc-files or whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, the filtering would best be done on the server.</p>
<p>As it&#8217;s kind of&#8230; nonstandardized how this is done I can live with the way thunderbird does this (download Mailheader, filter, move mail if necessary). </p>
<p>With KMail this isn&#8217;t really possible, as KMail will, as soon as there are filters set for IMAP-Accounts: Download new mail, delete it from the server, check for filters, reupload the mail if it doesn&#8217;t need to be filtered. This behaviour makes KMail unusable with filters, if you want to use IMAP-filters.</p>
<p>The IMHO best way would be filters set by MUA on the server, which can be read and altered by another MUA. So it doesn&#8217;t matter where I am, i always have the same filters without needing SSH/SCP to alter procmailrc-files or whatever.</p>
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