Discrimination?
by Mez on Aug.07, 2008, under Geeky, Personal
Some of you may know that I’m looking for a new job.
Well, anyway, I had a Phonecall from Kalamazoo Reynolds earlier, who, 3 questions into the interview asked.
“Do you smoke?”
“Yes”
“Ok, then please feel free to re-apply if you ever give up, we have a company policy in place that we do not employ smokers”
Is this legal?
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The ongoing struggle » Blog Archive » Legal in UK to refuse to employ smokers?
August 7th, 2008 on 10:37 pm[...] Martin, yes it is: [...]
August 8th, 2008 on 12:51 pm
he said you can reapply when you quit. That makes it legal.
You want the job? Then respect their policy. I can totally understand it.
August 8th, 2008 on 12:55 pm
@jegHegy : Legal in the EU as well.
Certainly not in france.
It’s forbidden to smoke on the office, but you have the right to be a smoker.
August 8th, 2008 on 1:20 pm
@Joao Pinto, I’m a european citizen, too…
You know, it’s much more unhealthy to walk around in our cities with all the cars polluting the air?
There are more car drivers killing more people then smokers commiting suicide?
Do you drink alcohol? You know, one beer per day, and you are seen as an alcoholic regarding the medical view. So yes, every italian guy, every french guy, german guy who is drinking wine, wine and beer every day (only one glas or one bottle) is medically an alcoholic.
So, do you want to not be employed, because you have your way of living? No one is saying, that smoking is good, but those people at HR and with their thinking? well, honestly, good to know that some companies are still sane…
August 8th, 2008 on 1:33 pm
This is ridiculous.
1. Health Implications – Should employers be allowed to discriminate on the basis of Obesity? How about if someone drinks? Eating or drinking too much are choices too.
2. Smell – Right….so can I start refusing to hire people who eat too much curry? I once had a co-worker who would eat so much spicy stuff it literally came out of his pores. I also worked with a woman who wore the most offensive perfume I’ve ever smelled. Should we be able to refuse to hire people who don’t floss because they get halitosis?
3. Too many breaks – Ridiculous. A company is entitled to set a limit on breaks for all employees, including smokers. As long as these are adhered to then there is no problem.
4. Health of co-workers – Good Lord I hope you’re joking. If you can point to a single reputable study that shows health suffers from passively inhaling “particles” from a person who has just smoked outside….well I’ll eat every single ciggy I have.
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Smokers have just become the new “trendy” people to hate. People are such bloody hypocrites.
August 8th, 2008 on 1:39 pm
I’m sorry but this is just petty,
The same logic people are using to castrate smokers can be used on a variety of groups:
* Alcoholics
* Overweight people (i believe the average person in america and england ar enow overweight)
* Certain religious groups
* The elderly
It seems to me that in the current state of affairs unless you are a perfect drone in terms of behaviour social status and habbits you will be persecuted.. is this fair? no, do we have to deal with it in this face-like-snake world? yes..
You should have just lied, if they query you at a later date having been caught smoking claim it to have been a recent habbit..
The truth is if they can adobt such a policy then they should be prepared for people to decieve them.
August 8th, 2008 on 3:11 pm
Midnightsun, how come we get trash “ooh they just hate smokers” comments like you only from smokers? Non-smokers don’t seem to have much problems, and they won’t attempt to apply chewbacca logics into every rational discussion
August 8th, 2008 on 4:11 pm
Rawsausage:
Perhaps because we’re the ones being discriminated against, so we respond the most vociferously? It’s very easy to be apathetic when it’s not your freedoms being messed with. If you would kindly explain how I’m using Chewbacca logic? I feel I was perfectly rational. I’ll leave you with a poem:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
– Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
August 8th, 2008 on 4:12 pm
I find it extremely amazed at how people link “no smoking” with some particular religion and get offended by the same. What the company might have meant by smoking would mostly be “smoking during working hours, and/or just before entering the office”, which is totally understandable as many of the employees may be non-smokers or people with breathing problems who might seriously get offended and affected by a fellow smoker. At work, you indeed need to interact with people, and in some jobs the whole job might be about interaction. In such scenarios, smoking might have a serious impact on work life. Also, the company might have had bad experiences with insurances, as smokers are more prone to cardio problems and hence the chance of paying insurance for such employees are more. May be the company considers that smoking is one of the main causes of ill health and thus doesn’t want to encourage it among it’s employees as well.
Whatever, this is not the only place to work on earth. If they say no job for smokers and you can’t quit, then you can anyways find another job which doesn’t demand so
August 8th, 2008 on 4:12 pm
Is this legal?
First, let me say, I was a smoker for 40 years. (4 packs a day). I quit cigarettes and went to cigars, you know, those little 5 packers. When I got up to 25 cigars a day, I went back to cigarettes. Now I have been smoke free for 30 years. Oh no, I just gave my age away. Well, with that out of the way, let me give you my opinion.
If I ran a school bus company and my employees transported kids, I would not think it wrong to ask anyone I hired if they were practicing alcoholics. And if they would answer yes, then I would not hire them. And I would not say this was discrimination. Maybe the employer is covering his or her butt from a lawsuit. Some one in the work place might come along and say to the employer, “because you hired smokers, and I got lung cancer I am going to sue you.” I guess that’s just the way I look at it.
August 8th, 2008 on 5:21 pm
In civilized parts of Canada, smoking in workplaces is illegal (because of the effects of second hand smoke). You should take the hint and quit smoking – although you will put more load on your health system by taking longer to die.
@Tom:
Native American religions involved a peace pipe, which wasn’t smoked outside of the ritual itself.
As to Christianity, I’m not sure where the pipe would come in. Tobacco wouldn’t have been smoked before the New World was discovered, so I guess you’re trying to draw a connection between incense and smoking.
August 8th, 2008 on 6:01 pm
A question for the original poster:
how much do you smoke? how often? why?
I think is are good questions.
Well I don’t smoke frequently, I smoke at parties and sometimes to clear my mind from “thoughts”. Is that makes me a smoker?
Most of the replies above focus on:
Is legal, smoker are shit or
Respect my habits.
But not a solution, the answer for the original poster has been given: its legal not to hire smokers.
But as long as I’m living in this earth, haven’t seen a solution to getting the habit of smoking, or eating too much.
So any idea?
August 8th, 2008 on 6:26 pm
Carlos.
How much do I smoke? Well, it’ll all depend on the mood I’m in.
It can vary from 10 – 30 a day… generally however, I’ve found that while at work (or at least at my previous position) I’d smoke less in a day when I was working, than a day when I wasn’t. How often? can vary from every half hour to every 4/5 hours.
Why ? ah the age old quesiton – I guess mainly the reason now is partly out of habit, and partly for something to do. It’s not something I can easily explain WHY, but I know I do…
*shrugs*
August 8th, 2008 on 6:55 pm
It sucks that it’s legal
August 8th, 2008 on 8:42 pm
@ Midnightsun
“This is ridiculous. Should employers be allowed to discriminate on the basis of Obesity?”
I have two words for you: Fashion Models.
In fact, consider that almost any professional athletic organization already does this. How many short fat NBA players have you ever see? Yes, employers should discriminate when hiring employees.
@Antonio:
Why does it suck that a person who owns and operates a business can run it as she sees fit?
August 8th, 2008 on 8:43 pm
Well.. smoking kills and suicide is illegal… so.. just c if that can help u somewhere!!
August 8th, 2008 on 9:40 pm
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I think it’s fantastic.
August 8th, 2008 on 10:36 pm
It’s legal, and it’s a good thing.
My company has a similar policy. It saves our insurance an average of between 30% and 70%.
That saves the company money, and that means we get more in our paychecks.
It comes down to the insurance companies. They’re raising rates faster for smokers than they are for non-smokers, and that eats into cost. Studies basically prove that smokers die at an alarmingly faster rate. Even those who don’t get cancer have secondary problems that kill them and cost money on the way out. Companies don’t want to pay that.. and so they don’t.
August 9th, 2008 on 12:19 am
“It’s legal because you can’t choose your “sex, race, age, religion, or ethnic group, or individuals with disabilities” but you CAN choose whether to smoke or not”
I think you’ll find that individuals can choose their religion! as I do not follow my parents religion being a passionate atheist.
And they can also choose self inflicted disabilities such as obesity and don’t give me all that jazz about how people can’t help it as you can’t possibly put on more weight than than the calorific content of what you eat. Obviously that should only affect employment opportunities in a few countries like the US where they don’t have a state health structure and health plans are provided as job benefits, so I figure it should be okay to say no fatties and no chimneys, heck its their company they should be able to employ who they please.
Incidentally I gave up smoking three years ago and for me its been a good thing but I wouldn’t want to force that on others like the anti-smoking Nazi’s around here.
“As an aside.. I recently had to visit a specialist medical practitioner with my daughter. She had a condition which was exacerbated by cigarette smoke. Neither my wife nor I smoke, but other family members do. The Professor we saw said that even if family members smoke outside, when they come in they continue to breathe out very nasty particulates over the rest of the family.”
Stop it, Stop it, how long did it take you to invent that twoddle! There are a lot worse viral pathogens in the air than the smell of smoke on a smokers breath.
August 9th, 2008 on 10:31 am
“Personally, I think it’s my own right and own freedom to smoke if I wish.”
No, it isn’t. _Don’t even try to go that way_. There is no benefit from smoking. Not a single one. It’s exactly the opposite. Smoking doesn’t calm you down, and endangers everybody (that includes the smoker and the non-smokers).
My first wife died with lung cancer ans she was a passive smoker: her co-workers smoked, back when it was legal and ok/cool to smoke.
I also find amusing when smokers compare themselves with people with diabetes and parents of disabled kids.
August 9th, 2008 on 1:50 pm
John. Yes it is anyones own right and own freedom to smoke if they wish. You CANNOT take that right away from someone. Your point may be valid, but if the person wants to, they have the right to smoke. It’s the same as if I want to, I have the right to shave my hair off..
August 11th, 2008 on 1:38 am
There is no such thing as a specific ‘right to smoke’. Any illusion of such a right comes from the idea that we can do as we please. We can-and should be able to-but only within the limit that we shouldn’t be able to do something if it causes harm (J.S. Mill’s harm principle). There are plenty of harms (both actual and slightly less tangible, such as the damage to social interaction between smokers and non-smokers who simply can’t stand the smell etc) in smoking.
I don’t recall any big fuss smokers made over bars and restaurants that specifically chose to prohibit smoking on their premises before the smoking ban – so why a fuss over an employer deciding of his own volition to ban smoking on his premises? It seems the smokers are afraid they’ll lose their wonderful cancersticks completely…
August 11th, 2008 on 1:53 am
nothing wrong with an employer deciding to ban smoking on his premises… the point here is… even if you only smoke outside of work, they wont employ you